Such a function would be useful to see if a player is using a game-altering modification (such as greenless mod). Like in CS 1.6, where they forced your client to take screenshots, banned you for wallhacks and requested you to post those screenshots in an 'unban appeal'.
It was already been suggested.
Quote from: vito1 on Jun 18, 2017, 11:41 AMIt was already been suggested.
Where, and why was it not implemented?
What the fuck? What else after this? I strongly disagree, it's a serious violation of player's privacy.
I don't see any privacy violation. Your game screen does not usually contain your bank account or stuff like that, plus, stuff like this is sent to the server anyway. As long as this is limited to the game screen, I cannot see why this would prove to be a violation.
I was thinking about private conversations or PMs but actually there are a lot of servers returning your password in plain text and IP after logging in, why on earth would you be forced to post such stuff in a public forum.
Considering server owners already have access to such stuff and they should know what not to do with it.
Quote from: PunkNoodle on Jun 18, 2017, 12:26 PMI was thinking about private conversations or PMs but actually there are a lot of servers returning your password in plain text and IP after logging in, why on earth would you be forced to post such stuff in a public forum.
First of all I don't know of any server returning your password in plain text after logging in. IP, maybe some do that.
Second of all, only the screenshot-taking is forced. You choose whether to upload the screenshot or not. You can modify the screenshot in any way you want, so, for example you can censor the chat if there is something that shouldn't be public. Good luck trying to remove signs of cheats in a screenshot, though.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 11:43 AMQuote from: vito1 on Jun 18, 2017, 11:41 AMIt was already been suggested.
Where, and why was it not implemented?
http://forum.vc-mp.org/?topic=2761.0
I see this inspiration coming from Counter-Strike days. I wonder how long before the people that make the hacks also find the location in memory of the function that takes the screenshot and route it to their own which disables their hacks while the screenshot is taken so it appears that the player is clean and then enable the hack again.
I mean seriously. If you were able to make that hack you can definitely make this possible as well.
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 01:05 PMI see this inspiration coming from Counter-Strike days. I wonder how long before the people that make the hacks also find the location in memory of the function that takes the screenshot and route it to their own which disables their hacks while the screenshot is taken so it appears that the player is clean and then enable the hack again.
I mean seriously. If you were able to make that hack you can definitely make this possible as well.
No.
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 01:17 PMQuote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:14 PMNo.
What no?
Going with your logic, no VCMP anti-cheat should exist in the first place because it's bypassable.
Everything is bypassable. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try blocking it. 99% of VCMP 'cheaters' are script-kiddies who use the already-ready stuff and have no idea how to accomplish something you've described above and will never know how.
QuoteIf you were able to make that hack you can definitely make this possible as well.
Changing the value of a memory address is hardly comparable to doing what you've described.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PM... script-kiddies who use the already-ready stuff ...
You just answered yourself. Because the guy who makes the hack makes that protection not the guy who uses it.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PMEverything is bypassable....
Again, you just answered yourself.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PM...99% of VCMP 'cheaters' ...
If you're in that 99% then you're a noob that doesn't know to use a hack properly and can be caught plain and simply without the screenshot to show you.
Otherwise, that means cheaters are never caught in vcmp and if that's so. How do you know there are cheaters out here? I mean, how have you caught them so far? Because you have to have caught some to think this feature is "
necessary", right?
But if this makes everyone happy. Make no mistake. The developers are free to implement it. I have nothing against it. I'm just saying this is a pipe dream that will never actually stop cheating.
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 01:32 PMQuote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PM... script-kiddies who use the already-ready stuff ...
You just answered yourself. Because the guy who makes the hack makes that protection not the guy who uses it.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PMEverything is bypassable....
Again, you just answered yourself.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:28 PM...99% of VCMP 'cheaters' ...
If you're in that 99% then you're a noob that doesn't know to use a hack properly and can be caught plain and simply without the screenshot to show you.
Otherwise, that means cheaters are never caught in vcmp and if that's so. How do you know there are cheaters out here? I mean, how have you caught them so far? Because you have to have caught some to request this feature, right?
But if this makes everyone happy. The developers are free to implement it. I have nothing against it. I'm just saying this is a pipe dream that will never actually stop cheating.
A person who doesn't play the game doesn't have an idea what problems I'm talking about.
Good luck somehow replacing generic.txd with bushes / leaves removed into original generic.txd while in-game.
QuoteBecause the guy who makes the hack makes that protection not the guy who uses it.
But who makes those cheats? Nobody. People use already ready programs. As I said, they change the value of memory addresses using tools. How is that skill? How is that making cheats? To speed cheat, they use Speed Gear or edit a memory address. How is that making cheats?
QuoteI'm just saying this is a pipe dream that will never actually stop cheating.
Nothing will. It's about deterrence.
What you're asking can be put in a simple story like this:
Imagine me installing a photo device in your house. In which I have no jurisdiction and neither any control over what happens. If you or any of your friends smart enough or have watched a movie you can put a static photo in front of that camera to make me see what you want me to see. Making the camera as useless as a potato (maybe less).
That's how anti-cheating that relies on the client to be trustworthy works. Google the meaning of "pipe dream".
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 02:04 PMWhat you're asking can be put in a simple story like this:
Imagine me installing a photo device in your house. In which I have no jurisdiction and neither any control over what happens. If you or any of your friends smart enough or have watched a movie you can put a static photo in front of that camera to make me see what you want me to see. Making the camera as useless as a potato (maybe less).
That's how anti-cheating that relies on the client to be trustworthy works. Google the meaning of "pipe dream".
Ok. I will put my words in a simple story too:
Nobody in VCMP is smart enough to accomplish what you have described.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 02:26 PMQuote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 02:04 PMWhat you're asking can be put in a simple story like this:
Imagine me installing a photo device in your house. In which I have no jurisdiction and neither any control over what happens. If you or any of your friends smart enough or have watched a movie you can put a static photo in front of that camera to make me see what you want me to see. Making the camera as useless as a potato (maybe less).
That's how anti-cheating that relies on the client to be trustworthy works. Google the meaning of "pipe dream".
Ok. I will put my words in a simple story too:
Nobody in VCMP is smart enough to accomplish what you have described.
Did you just admitted that VCMP players (
including you) are dumber than a potato? According to that little story. Dude, speak for yourself. Don't make that claim in the name of others.
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 02:34 PMQuote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 02:26 PMQuote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 02:04 PMWhat you're asking can be put in a simple story like this:
Imagine me installing a photo device in your house. In which I have no jurisdiction and neither any control over what happens. If you or any of your friends smart enough or have watched a movie you can put a static photo in front of that camera to make me see what you want me to see. Making the camera as useless as a potato (maybe less).
That's how anti-cheating that relies on the client to be trustworthy works. Google the meaning of "pipe dream".
Ok. I will put my words in a simple story too:
Nobody in VCMP is smart enough to accomplish what you have described.
Did you just admitted that VCMP players (including you) are dumber than a potato? According to that little story. Dude, speak for yourself. Don't make that claim in the name of others.
I wouldn't expect people whose peak of their skill is editing memory addresses found on the internet or using a Speed Gear program to increase their speed ingame to be able to do what you've described.
But then again, it's pointless to talk with someone who probably has never even opened VCMP 0.4.
What I suggested will help in detecting wall hackers and greenless mod users. Unless you claim otherwise, I see no point in continuing further.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 02:49 PMI see no point in continuing further.
Me neither. Like I said. I have nothing against adding this. But it won't be long until people will fine a way to go against it and make it as useless as a potato.
off-topic:
Quote from: . on Jun 18, 2017, 03:01 PM... make it as useless as a potato.
HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT? (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhlNyofqlWU)
Quote from: EK.IceFlake on Jun 18, 2017, 01:52 PMQuote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:43 PMthey use Speed Gear
Prove speed gear exists.
Google "Speed Gear," it's not hard to prove.
I thought about adding this before but the major blocking issue would've been sending the photo back to the server. They'd have to be stored on the server side, which is a problem if space is limited, and the bandwidth required to upload the file could alert the user if they have limited bandwidth (and even if they don't).
Forcing the client to store the screenshot would also be an issue because this would become a kind of slowhacking, even if only for this purpose:
https://developer.steampowered.com/wiki/Admin_Slowhacking
Quote from: Stormeus on Jun 18, 2017, 05:47 PMQuote from: EK.IceFlake on Jun 18, 2017, 01:52 PMQuote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 01:43 PMthey use Speed Gear
Prove speed gear exists.
Google "Speed Gear," it's not hard to prove.
I thought about adding this before but the major blocking issue would've been sending the photo back to the server. They'd have to be stored on the server side, which is a problem if space is limited, and the bandwidth required to upload the file could alert the user if they have limited bandwidth (and even if they don't).
Forcing the client to store the screenshot would also be an issue because this would become a kind of slowhacking, even if only for this purpose:
https://developer.steampowered.com/wiki/Admin_Slowhacking
I choose the locally-stored screenshot option.
Everything is abusable, so I think worrying about 'slowhacking' is being too paranoid.
The client would get notified that he saved a screenshot.
Good luck trying to 'add' bushes or hide wallhack visible in a screenshot.
Why can't a player take another screenshot after pressing a button to disable that mod and use that instead?
I don't see this idea going anywhere.
Quote from: EK.IceFlake on Jun 18, 2017, 06:23 PMWhy can't a player take another screenshot after pressing a button to disable that mod and use that instead?
I don't see this idea going anywhere.
Because I assume you could have those hash-checks to see whether the screenshot is the same as when taken or not..
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 06:27 PMQuote from: EK.IceFlake on Jun 18, 2017, 06:23 PMWhy can't a player take another screenshot after pressing a button to disable that mod and use that instead?
I don't see this idea going anywhere.
Because I assume you could have those hash-checks to see whether the screenshot is the same as when taken or not..
That is, again, relying on a trustworthy client as
@. pointed out.
Cheats vs anti-cheats is endless war. Nobody able to win for sure.
Quote from: vito1 on Jun 18, 2017, 06:33 PMCheats vs anti-cheats is endless war. Nobody able to win for sure.
You can have game logic server-side ;)
Would completely devastate sync though.
Quote from: EK.IceFlake on Jun 18, 2017, 06:35 PMQuote from: vito1 on Jun 18, 2017, 06:33 PMCheats vs anti-cheats is endless war. Nobody able to win for sure.
You can have game logic server-side ;)
Would completely devastate sync though.
One still able to use bot/script via hardware/virtual PC.
(keybinds for glitching/gaming mouse for aiming stuff for exmaple)
If the reason this topic was created is just to counteract Greenless mod, then I think devs can surely find better solutions. LU has a check on some game files, that while being theoretically bypassable, nobody did that. If there was a similar check on gta3.img, every modded model or texture would be kept at bay.
Quote from: PunkNoodle on Jun 18, 2017, 09:38 PMevery modded model or texture would be kept at bay.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
It's an almost 15 years old game; it's graphics are that old too.
Some players (including me) have edited vehicles/player models/buildings/blabla to make the game look better, to keep it up with the new generations.
I can't imagine it without visual mods anymore.
Take MTA:SA as an example: besides scripting features they add graphic enchancements, because the game it's old.
Players can choose if they want those enabled or not.
The main idea is theorically right. I belive there are more priorities in terms of hacks/mods apart from the 'greenless' modification to care about... Honestly making such implementations are not worth enough to stop players using this mod.
And to be frank, removing the palms and whatever other textures too, just to gain some more visibility is completely stupid and retarded. Runining the game enviroment is just a price that DMer apes are up to pay... Sure, let them enjoy an ugly Vice City ::)
I see no reason for people to disagree with this suggestion. In what way does it harm you? How could it affect server performance? Stability? In no way, I assume.
Quotea price that DMer apes are up to pay. Sure, let them enjoy an ugly Vice City ::)
DMer apes who make up 99% of VCMP's playercount. I don't see how that helps when we let normal players suffer and let 'DMer apes' enjoy an ugly Vice City.. who lose nothing by doing so.
People who are not active in DM "competitive" (if you can call it that way) scene at all will most likely not understand the reasons for the suggestion.
We want a fair game, not a competition based on who has better mods or not. And this suggestion won't harm anyone.
And if you honestly think that servers will actually abuse this function then jeez.. go see a shrink. If any server would then it would instantly enjoy a 0/100 playercount and players would go to the rival server.
Will this get 'bypassed'? For greenless? I doubt. Because the thing responsible for it is generic.txd which I don't think can be magically replaced while being ingame. But perhaps I'm wrong.
Wallhacks? Sure, it can be bypassable. But until it's bypassable I believe that the developers will work out a more permanent resolution. And if not, then a longer-lasting one.
This is easy to implement and won't harm anyone.
Quote from: sseebbyy on Jun 18, 2017, 11:45 PMTake MTA:SA as an example: besides scripting features they add graphic enchancements, because the game it's old.
Players can choose if they want those enabled or not.
Speaking of MTA SA, It has functions that give you what modifications a client has in his gta3.img. All the graphics and visual mods are visible via the admin panel. These visuals can be disabled by the server as well to use default. Moreover things which DO NOT give any visual enhancements but unfair advantages are automatically replaced with default files data. This is a perfect example of how things should work.
Well modifying graphical stuff hear is not a problem. If it were, developers would of created a uac check for the server owners to be able to turn on and off when clients enter a server.
@Stormeus could you do it? Just curious as sometimes when players modify the games graphics it gets to the point there FPS drops. Even if they had good upload and download speed. It typically drops causing clients to lag due to players not syncing to the server that well. Causing unfair advantages that many people don't realize..
As for the screen shot I like the Idea, But I would prefer to force record players like the story mode replay button, But being able to play those videos as AVI.
Quote from: krystianoo on Jun 18, 2017, 11:43 AMQuote from: vito1 on Jun 18, 2017, 11:41 AMIt was already been suggested.
Where, and why was it not implemented?
Because it could be faked.