IMPORTANT - sync lag cause of every server

[HunTinG]

https://viceunderdogs.com/index.php?topic=17431.0

in short, GUIs will damage hard your server's sync.. therefore make sure you LIMIT or REMOVE the GUIs from your scripts if you don't want to have an unstable server, and that is a MUST to spread everywhere, so that every server owner eventually learns about it

I'm hoping this works, waiting for your feedbacks..

[DizzasTeR]

GUI has nothing to do with sync, the whole concept of "sync lag per server" is flawed, please go educate yourself instead of blaming VCMP and its features that the developers have brought.

[Spiller]

I don't understand how GUI can affect a server's stability.
Crippling client's FPS through manipulation of GUI elements (especially labels) for animations is a possibility but that ends right there.

[HunTinG]

try giving it a try and remove GUI for a little testing, and see the results..
as far as i noticed, the servers that don't use GUI actually don't have any sync problems...
and as far as i noticed x2, EC got itself messed up only after developers added a shit ton of features, but mostly the big,detailed and actually oversized(in server dimension) GUIs... i spoke with some people today, and all gave me the answer i wanted - the GUIs do affect server's stability either because oversize, or because too many of them... and if there's something wrong coded in server side, then everything goes nuts, a player actually blamed GUI for the FPS lag he was getting back when he had a poor PC playing VCMP, mentioning he used to avoid servers that use a lot of such resources, so there you have your answer i hope... only requires a bit of testing, and a little implication coming from the all-around owners of servers

@doom you could at least test it out and check the differences, instead of making assumptions like that, so far you did nothing too productive to VCMP, actually not much apart from banning the wrong players in lack of proof or shitty reasons, correct me if i am wrong

[Pun1sh3r]

How should that affect the Server's Sync? GUI's are Clientside and has nothing todo with Server's Sync.

Instead of blaming on that GUI's are affecting the Server's Sync you should give us an example to prove that you are right, a Video with the same Players, same Ping or almost the same ping and same Server location.
Maybe a example Script of how to reproduce this?

[HunTinG]

erm, i am not in posession of any server script at the moment, everything i stated is just based on my observations.. so i suggested you could test it out for me?

this must be it, because everything is coming together.. while it IS unbelievable for some ppl that the GUIs may affect server sync, actually it makes perfect sense to me...
ever since GUIs were introduced, the servers that used them got bad sync

the only servers that used GUIs and had no trouble, since they used very less amount of it were CTF and LCS..

so, to start with a simple question: is there a server with a shit load of GUIs right now in vcmp that doesn't have this issue?

trust me, all of them have: KoTH, RTV, TDW, EC... every single 1 that use high detailed GUIs got strange sync, and bullets fired + other things will be messed up..

the ones that don't use any GUIs/have very low amount of MB wasted on this: EA(no GUI), CTF(small GUIs), LCS(small GUIs), FunVice DM (no GUI), XE (no GUI)

in those servers, the sync is overall good, normal, behaves smoothly.

i.. have no idea how possibly i can prove to you, other than letting you experiment this.. i only brought this into your attention hoping things get better... let's hope i wasn't wrong to think so.. effort needs to come from both my side and your side

[Spiller]

Although I don't think there was a need, but for the sake of it, we tested it.

Assuming that the GUI is client side and should cause an individual effect, a duel should perhaps be a fair comparison ground. (Obviously keeping any other factor constrained)

Spot the difference for yourself (if any):

(with GUI)
https://youtu.be/RsT4eg5SeiU

(without GUI)
https://youtu.be/C2fPHEEpzhg

I'm not even sure what issues are you even referring to, is there a way to reproduce that specific part?
Or a video to show what would be the ideal difference on a perfect day?

[HunTinG]

0:06 in the second video - as you can see the player got hit
0:35 too in the second video.
1:31 in the first video - the same thing happened in first video but this time his hp didnt drop.

trust me, i didn't even play and i can feel the differences i think

let go of it already, if it's doing bad for the gameplay, then just limit it as much as possible or even let go of it

yep, exactly the same cases that i've explained, in a server with shit ton of GUI - the players just DON'T get hit for some reason, then the mouse starts warping a little ( like interrupting, you can even feel it different, such as when the game is sort of lagging, or actually when the controls itself take time to respond )

the main problem of this is the controls - you will feel strange warp in the way that controls respond according to the amount of GUI the server has, because the heavier it is - you will find it harder to switch weapons, then your X and Y may feel strange for some reason, even though my gaming mouse works perfect in other servers, in those that use GUI it just starts responding weird

another thing i've mentioned in EC forum, but the post got removed once with my account - when i was shooting grenades, for some reason they 90% of the time were NOT getting hit, not bouncing, acting like solid objects, usually taking like 5 shots to make it bounce off the ground and fly

VCMP is an old enough game, and i prefer it the way it is standard.. by adding this nonsense GUI you've only worsened the smoothness and eventually made everything harder to do..

is it so old fashioned nowadays to select weapons with a command or with a simple GUI.. or does everything you have in the server needs its own GUI?

We did test KoTH during development and it takes a lot of CPU if you just throw the GUI out there. What would take 25% of my full CPU speed to hit 30 FPS in VC:MP now takes around 62.5% of full speed to get 30 FPS in KOTH (Intel Core i3 3240 @ stock). In noting this during development, we deliberately designed the game in a fashion where combat uses very minimal GUI to work around this fact.

The killer in GUI is drawing images and 3D sprites. If whatever is being added can be a GUI box element, we do that instead. All the heavy sprite stuff are accessible only when the you are not an active participant of the round in some way.

^^ there goes our answer.. and i remember that a similar thing happened to me when i was playing with aimbot which Thorax leaked - the CPU was getting over used, and shotgun combat was almost impossible for me, when i was turning it off, everything was going back to normal...


so, like gangstaras said:

The servers just need smart use of the GUI

maybe it should sound something like "Server needs as less use of GUI, only for selecting packs and voting bases" ...

STOP harming vcmp with the nonsense addons, it's already getting hairy, VC itself has its limits as far as i remember, and you simply cannot force everything down its throat only to make it look "SO COOL"

[Spiller]

0:06 in the second video - as you can see the player got hit
0:35 too in the second video.
1:31 in the first video - the same thing happened in first video but this time his hp didnt drop.

Placebo, there was no difference at all.

when i was shooting grenades, for some reason they 90% of the time were NOT getting hit, not bouncing, acting like solid objects, usually taking like 5 shots to make it bounce off the ground and fly

Now this is interesting, how is GUI related to grenades bouncing or not bouncing?
Delusion.

so, like gangstaras said:
- quote -

maybe it should sound something like "Server needs as less use of GUI, only for selecting packs and voting bases" ...

Do you even understand how GUI works?

You namedropped a few servers with the assumptions that HD Sprites, frequent use of GUI or high GUI store size would cause sync issues. I wouldn't completely agree with you even if you said performance issues let alone sync.

Talking about the high dimension thing in specific, sprites are (mostly) relatively sized according to your resolution. And high store size will have what impact, what harm at worst do you think a few extra megabytes of size would cause?

The performance is identical with all the GUI loaded (1) and with no GUI loaded (2). 60 FPS @ 1280x720 windowed.

Besides the GUI store size is under 1MB in size. A lot of stuff was created completely using GUICanvas. I could throw a humungous chunk of those and you wouldn't feel a thing.


Yes, some servers for sure just "throw" stuff in GUI and it ravages the performance, but it always can be optimized and has to be.

I will agree to you with the EC scenario but that most certainly is not caused by UI sprites. KoTH, RTV, TDW or EA, they all feel the same to me even though I do not have a very good PC at present moment. Instead CTF feels a little different, it might be just because of the fact that I don't play a lot there.

Even if all the mentioned servers were to remove all the GUI, there would be no change sync wise.
Stop shoveling assumptions everywhere.

[HunTinG]

well, you do as you consider, I have told you the 99% real reason (that i believe),if you want to ravage your servers, be my guest.. I don't explain twice to somebody
I don't beg you to fix your servers for me, there's a lot more opportunities than playing in RTV, TDW or whichever you own

just tell me one thing: how is that there's no server in VCMP which uses a lot of GUI that players (like me) don't complain about?
EC sync, as well as TDW and most likely RTV sync are just the same, only it's less worse in RTV and TDW cuz EC is a case of overusage of GUI (as it seems)..

it doesn't matter how good PC you have, just like with teargas, and like playing GTA 4 on PC - you can have RTX 3090, you will still feel where the problem is at

GTA 4 has a bad mouse deadzone, and guess what? even with my gaming mouse, I couldn't fix that.. same goes with the stuck at 50 framerate (unless you use mods to bring it higher, and then you totally mess the game up)

coding is the most important part of the game, and you simply cannot use modern technology to fix problems caused by a developer

[Spiller]

well, you do as you consider, I have told you the 99% real reason (that i believe),if you want to ravage your servers, be my guest.. I don't explain twice to somebody

If you don't explain anything twice then I expect you to understand something that has been logically backed and explained in one turn, especially something you have zero to little knowledge about. You're not even sure at this point and have already gotten to a point of blaming VCMP and the entirety of server developers?

Take this example: RTV 4 was tested totally in public and the GUI was built over stages. People have tested and played the server both with and without the GUI. Then how come not even a single player complained about sync issues if it is so certain that GUI causes this?

If I were you I'd be grateful for these features instead of going around and berating them.

[HunTinG]

there's nothing logic in what to say, apart from that which you make up.

i will never be grateful to PL staff for whatever they do, your entire clan should be banned from releasing servers in VCMP, all they did so far was only worsen the gameplay and manage to ban the clean players for stupidest reason, while aimbotters were free to play.

nvm, have fun with RTV, TDW whatever ... it only lasts for maximum 1 month anyway

[HunTinG]

i suggest you to read this: https://viceunderdogs.com/index.php?topic=17431.msg175163#msg175163

and stop blaming me for saying your features are shit.. they are shit because they bring down the rest of the server.. you really think i would care if they didn't and you would normally be able to use GUI and all other who knows what stuff?

you expect too much from a 2002 game, it's good as it was, no need any improvement done to it..

[DizzasTeR]

You've been given your answers, nothing wrong with GUIs. The sync itself has to be improved thats it. Get a better PC so that you can run a 2002 game well.

This topic will only lead to toxicity (Which you're already showing), locked.