Fireside chat: the future of VC:MP

[Stormeus]

Hi guys,

Nice, I tought @Stormeus posted that vcmp is closing.

I didn't say anything like that, but even if I had, we'd be hard pressed to "close" VC:MP anyway. We don't run the servers, we don't have a kill switch in the client and the browser is designed in such a way that even if our servers go down (as has regrettably happened here), the community is able to direct people to an alternate source.

As has been mentioned, I have grown disenchanted with VC:MP development, partially because it's a lot of work for very little appreciation, but also because I'm a full-time student, and when I'm not in school I work full-time. When you're asleep for 8 hours a day, working another 8 hours a day and spending the rest of your time trying to have a social life, there's very little time to devote to the project.

I don't want VC:MP to die considering there's still an active community surrounding it. I honestly don't know what to do though -- the few community members I figured were knowledgeable enough in C++ and good ambassadors of the community don't seem to be active anymore either, and I've been away for so long that I don't even know if there's anyone I can recruit as a developer. As many have also noticed and taken advantage of, the anti-cheat infrastructure isn't robust, so completely open sourcing VC:MP is also out of the question since I have no doubt that any positive contributions by the community would be immediately outweighed by people changing the code to cheat. I'm open to hearing what the community thinks about the situation.

In the meantime I'll see if the server itself is still up, and if not I'll update the ModDB download we have to point to Thijn's server.

[Sebastian]

@Stormeus , making everyone happy won't happen in any case.
But I believe there is still a big chance for VC:MP Comunity to give the needed feedback.
Also, implementing some new specified features will make players keep eyes opened, because they will get more in their gameplay.
(I have some ideas)

PS: Good to see you ! o/

[Xmair]

like this post if u want to

#makeslcdeveloper

runs

[Xmair]

like this post if u want to

#makeslcdeveloper

runs

he is also inactive.

No. Being inactive on only forum does NOT mean he's inactive from everywhere.

[.]

he is also inactive.
all people who good in coding also having a job... very unexpected fact.

I am not inactive. I've simply moved to a different community. One where you can actually have a coherent discussion and not just `wAnt scriPTs and CMd. GIvE!!!`. Which has been the case when the developers stopped visiting the forum. We all thought the project was abandoned and there was nothing to be done about.

Yes I do have a job. And while I have that I still fiddle with code whenever I'm home because I simply enjoy it. And it's actually a way for me to release some stress.

I've been asked about the dev thing on Discord. And the answer was yes. But not like old days. More like casual maintenance. Even that would be better than nothing.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I was not inactive but that there was simply nothing to be active about anymore.

[Sebastian]

I still fiddle with code whenever I'm home because I simply enjoy it. And it's actually a way for me to release some stress.

@Stormeus we need this guy.
I'm not just dropping this phrase in this post. I do believe he worths the most to be a developer, because he gives his best when about coding.
As he said, he wasn't active anymore because there was nothing worthing anymore; but he is here now.

[NicusorN5]

like this post if u want to

#makeslcdeveloper

runs

^^^^^ you all should like his post.

[DizzasTeR]

SLC is a good candidate, it has been obvious ever since he stepped into VCMP, we know he is capable with what he does, he has been dedicated as well, he helped many of the people here to advance to another level of thinking and approaching in code. Although hiring him should've been done long ago, and heck knows how things would've gone then but yeah whatever.

tl;dr Just take him while you still can, we are not sure if we'll get any more people who are dedicated enough like him so atleast don't let this one slip away as well. Thijn is doing his best but he shouldn't be dragging this alone. Assign forum moderators, you don't necessarily have to be a beta tester to be a moderator, take good and active people like you guys did with wiki contributors, and this forum will be a better place.

[Shadow]

I think that VC:MP desperately needs a team restructure. There's only a few dedicated people left who actually know what they're doing in this game, not just begging for scripts left right and center. You could promote some of the forum casuals to beta-testers (people like @Doom_Kill3R , @vitogta , @Sebastian to name a few) and set up a builds section on github/bitbucket (wherever VC:MP code is hosted) and give them access (even if there are nightly builds).

For the developers part, that's a bit more problematic. Despite the lack of talented C++ programmers (aside of @. , I don't know many others), recruiting a wave of developers who aren't really experienced is not beneficial either because it would ruin the quality of the client/server. I'm all for @. but I would also try to consider some backup plans, as you've said yourself, the community should not die because a few people are inactive due to jobs/university.

One thing that I am completely for is making a proper website for VC:MP where you have the official links for the client, the latest server (with a bullet list of other versions) and the plugins repositories linked, and if you can't do that, let someone do the revamp of the official website as it is and he'll offer the SHA hashes of the executables to ensure that no tampering was done with the binaries. I think this would have a beneficial outcome on the ease of playing the game, you visit one site, download and you're ready to go.

[vitogta]

You could promote some of the forum casuals to beta-testers (people like @Doom_Kill3R , @vitogta , @Sebastian to name a few) and set up a builds section on github/bitbucket (wherever VC:MP code is hosted) and give them access (even if there are nightly builds).

Why do we even need official statuses for beta tester? I noticed social status (like admin) is used in vc-mp to suppress people (for example admin insults player and if player insults back admin - admin banning him). This is a reason why I not playing some servers anymore. Egalitarianism would be more positive for community than those ranks, promotes, respected people and so on. Needs testers - invite them privately without giving "ranks" or just share beta verstion to public to collect feedback. Try to avoid bureaucracy and rankism as possible because it's brings corruption, it's a problem of vc-mp. When social status appreciated more than factual contribution people stopping their contribution and we seeing stagnation. Sorry if it looks like offtop but it's from my personal experience and this thing is really demotivates me.

[.]

@vitogta don't confuse server admins with forum admins. when you do that next time, realize that the server admin is just a another player (like you) that gave himself (themselves?) that "privilege".

[vitogta]

@vitogta don't confuse server admins with forum admins. when you do that next time, realize that the server admin is just a another player (like you) that gave himself (themselves?) that "privilege".

It's same story with this forum or any powership as generic. In official servers that powership starts from ex-developers for example. I guess my point is simple - if you need a tester - invite him but not 'reward' him by powership in forums or masterlist. I don't confusing anything, 'official status' is using for personal benefits here too, and it's demotivates some people like me. If you don't see any problem here, then ok.

Simple example how it works, SLC: I not motivated to promote masterlist where I can be banned (I were few weeks ago) for disrespecting some admin's ego. Or my server could banned there for same reason. A place where bans are based on social connections instead rules can't motivate people to contribute.

[NicusorN5]

@Stormeus Is there an new VC:MP browser planned, or there will be an update of it?

[NewK]

Hey @Stormeus , nice to have you back.

I'd like to suggest someone for the developer rank which in my opinion is right now the most knowledgeable person for the job. I'm talking about @Murdock . He has the necessary knowledge about reverse engineering and C++ development to make significant progress, and most important, we already know he can be trusted as he's already part of the beta team. I'v known him for the past 10 years ever since I started playing VCMP and I fully believe he can make a difference here.  For those who are "new" here and have not heard of murdock before, back in 0.3 he developed a "module" called VCA( Vice City Addons) which added alot of features to VCMP that were missing, like NPCs and tons of other stuff.

Now as you said, I'm not sure that he's active or interested, I talked with him a few days ago on discord and I know he's still always on IRC, but I'd be interested to hear his opinion on this. Maybe both murdock and SLC working together could be a viable solution for now, if both are willing of course.

We "all" have jobs and free time is hard to come by, no doubt about that, I definitely know the feeling as I'm in the same position myself, but if we could get a nice number of people involved in development, even if all of them had limited time that would atleast ensure future updates, even if at a slower pace.

Btw what's @maxorator 's stance on this? Have you been able to contact him or is he still MIA?

[EK.IceFlake]

Hi guys,

Nice, I tought @Stormeus posted that vcmp is closing.

I didn't say anything like that, but even if I had, we'd be hard pressed to "close" VC:MP anyway. We don't run the servers, we don't have a kill switch in the client and the browser is designed in such a way that even if our servers go down (as has regrettably happened here), the community is able to direct people to an alternate source.

As has been mentioned, I have grown disenchanted with VC:MP development, partially because it's a lot of work for very little appreciation, but also because I'm a full-time student, and when I'm not in school I work full-time. When you're asleep for 8 hours a day, working another 8 hours a day and spending the rest of your time trying to have a social life, there's very little time to devote to the project.

I don't want VC:MP to die considering there's still an active community surrounding it. I honestly don't know what to do though -- the few community members I figured were knowledgeable enough in C++ and good ambassadors of the community don't seem to be active anymore either, and I've been away for so long that I don't even know if there's anyone I can recruit as a developer. As many have also noticed and taken advantage of, the anti-cheat infrastructure isn't robust, so completely open sourcing VC:MP is also out of the question since I have no doubt that any positive contributions by the community would be immediately outweighed by people changing the code to cheat. I'm open to hearing what the community thinks about the situation.

In the meantime I'll see if the server itself is still up, and if not I'll update the ModDB download we have to point to Thijn's server.

Maybe release the source code without the makefiles/Visual Studio files. Then the script kiddies won't be helped by Youtube tutorials.